I was reading this post and noticed how many people are no longer on Pink Truth and who’s been reduced to Guest. How did she decide that evebichon needed to be a guest. Why not some of the others. Just too many folks that have gotten the hell outta Dodge. Poor High Hopes… just look at her karma. Now you know thats just not right. How would any newbie posting think someone could have over 2000 posts and NO karma? Wisen up chickies and enjoy the perfect country & western song. *** Well, I was drunk… the day my mom… got outta prison…***
| evebichon
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I have a friend who has been in MK for years and years. I doubt she has ever made any money. She just quit a job and is soooo excited about going back to working her MK business. She went to seminar last week. Her husband is supportive. They cannot afford to lose more money. Their financial situation is bad.
I mentioned this site once maybe a year ago and she just ignored me.
I want to tell her my opinion and get her to read this site. But she is so very happy and upbeat I think maybe I am wrong to try to influence her.
I see MK as just another MLM and was glad to find this site and information to confirm my suspicions. The product is just okay and better products can be purchased at the grocery or drug store for far less money. I also looked at their website. It seems to me they have far less products this year and that makes me think there are problems. My friend has always believed MK must be good because they sell the most — I’ve never said I thought it was only the reps. buying it.
I am also suspicious of the MK myth of how she just wanted to help women. She had no women friends. I believe she was good at selling. Period.
I think I should not try right now to tell my friend MK is a scam. I think I should wait until she is again less starry eyed and then tell her IT IS NOT HER FAULT and why there is no chance of success.
Agree? Disagree? Suggestions? Advice? Should I just mind my own business?
Thanks for any and all comments. |
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| ChaosTamer
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Maybe you could refer to PT for advance info on new products. I know that some active MKers come here for that specific reason. Then maybe to we look around.
 to you for carrying so much for a friend. |
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| high hopes
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I think your situation is the hardest anyone ever deals with, beside being the spouse. You should try to be there, but when she tries to offer you the flopportunity or buy products, you will gently, but firmly have to say no. Hold your ground. If she says you are not supporting her tell her you are, but you will not support MK. Explain your feelings and reasoning to her and you will have to keep telling her you both were friends a long time before MK came along. You don’t want to push her away, but just keep gently reminding her about PT and your feelings when she asks.
Ultimately you may just have to step back and let her discover the reality of MK for herself and be there to pick up the pieces.
Good Luck!
HH |
To be able to laugh at oneself is to know the joy of life 
No one wins in DS/MLM’s, they are just soul sucking money machines……. |
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| No More Denial
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Perhaps we could start a post asking for post seminar stories… they might be from those either in or out of ‘the fog’ as we call it. Then you could encourage her to come and share. It would at least get her to the site.
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| alicethompson
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Maybe you could refer to PT for advance info on new products. I know that some active MKers come here for that specific reason. Then maybe to we look around.
to you for carrying so much for a friend.
Chaos has a great idea and it would be a “back door” approach to PT. Other than that you can just be supportive and wait it out. It never hurts to pray  |
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| Pink Lawnmower
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Hi Evebichon. Whatever your friend decides to do, just rest assured that you are a great friend for having tried to help.  She will come around, unfortunately in her own time. We can only hope it is before she gets deeper into debt. I would mention it one more time to her.The rest is up to her. Thanks for reading and sharing the message. Spread the word that we are here! 
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I should have listened to my Mom
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| New Attitude
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try to sublty ask questions like “what are a directors expenses, in realtion to your new bigger earnings?” or “how many people would you need on your team who are consistently ordering to maintain your director status?” Sublte things and then when she gives you an answer you could quietly and calmly reply “oh my that’s alot to do every month.” Ask questions that will try to make her see tha it is not all rosy  and that there are some tough times ahead. And of course try and get her to PT, but she might view that as being to pushy, don’t push becuase she may just resist even more.
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Stop chasing the dream that can never be caught.
**Spread the word…let the truth be heard.** |
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| Not a Bee-liever
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Si tienes preguntas en español, puedo ayudarte.
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Welcome to PT evebichon! I agree that you should disguise your concerns in the form of questions. That way they become her concerns and they rise up from within her.
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 You best get off the internet and work yo’ bidness girlfriend!
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| evebichon
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Thank you all that have replied. Wonderful suggestions. And this is a great site. I am learning so much more about how MK works which gives me lots of ammunition for asking her questions.
I’ll call my friend “Sister”. Sister is a wonderful, loving, generous person. After reading some articles and reading your advice I know she is deceiving herself about MK. Being deceitful to get recruits and all the other things I am learning about are in direct opposition to her values. (obviously most people here also found MK to be a disappointment in the values arena)
Anyway, I will be asking her questions when I can that I hope will let her see that MK is not the organization she has always believed it to be.
The article I read here about how MK manipulates reps. to not share any information told me everything I need to know. What a classic control technique. It’s so 1984! Only listen to our propaganda and never question, never doubt. Shun those who question the way of Mary Kay! OMG!
This is what I am going to talk and talk and talk about to Sister. My plan is not to criticize MK. There is another group (not a business or MLM) that she despises that does this propaganda control and I will talk about them until she makes the connection that it is also what MK does.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
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| high hopes
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Hi Eve,
It is not only MK that is like this, it is EVERY other MLM/DS company out there. If she does decide to not do MK there is always the temptation to try something else. You are just trading one company name and product for another. They are all soul sucking money machines.
HH |
To be able to laugh at oneself is to know the joy of life
No one wins in DS/MLM’s, they are just soul sucking money machines……. |
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| seagrl
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isn’t this just the best place to find truth and to unload? I thank God i found it. I am going through the same thing with my own child ( grown woman), who is so far in the fog that she considers me very negative as I was one of her recruits that had to know too much too fast, and now I am shunned. I would love to see MK come down, and crash and burn. It should be illegal, they brainwash, they lie. I thought i was the only one thinking this way until I found this place. I say the advice you have gotten has been great. Esp about being her friend but firmly saying no to MK, and when she looses some of that starry eyes, be there for her and let her know it was not her fault, and she wasn’t stupid.
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This story has been repeated in so many forms here, and it is so sad to read yet another person sucked in so deeply. I just don’t know why MLMers try to encourage people to quit their day jobs. It initiates a credit death spiral. 
Mentally Fucked by Tracy said
What a whore.
Mercedes said
OMG-her karma has been wiped but she isn’t a guest? this is insane in the membrane-insane got no brain! Who is friends with a techie guru? Going to check mine now…
gothchiq said
So now people are getting “demoted”?
Screw it. for real.
fightingwindmills said
Do people not look at dates??????????????? Dates, people, look at the dates.
I’m sorry I’m going to be rude, but this is totally taken out of context. Evebichon signed up, forgot her password and messed up her own account a few days later and re-signed as Evebichon2 so Tracy made the first account a guest account (blacked out). I asked Evebichon about it and she was very upfront. Tracy wasn’t being underhanded this time. Get the facts, ScrewU.
And seagrl? What is your deal saying “Welcome to PT” to someone who has been there since July?
Rebecca said
Evebichon said, “The article I read here about how MK manipulates reps. to not share any information told me everything I need to know. What a classic control technique. It’s so 1984! Only listen to our propaganda and never question, never doubt. Shun those who question the way of Mary Kay! OMG!”
Gee, I seem to recall that Tracy isn’t exactly prolific in the information SHE decides to share. Never mind excluding any positive experiences in MK. Share only the bad stuff, the good stuff will be removed. Oh, and Tracy does not like it when her followers read and/or post on other sites. Weren’t some banned from PT for doing exactly that?
Not a Beeliever said, “I agree that you should disguise your concerns in the form of questions.”
I know that Not a Beeliever comments here now, and is no longer part of PT. But back then in July, she did write this comment. Disguising concerns sounds to me like manipulation. And lack of full disclosure.
It truly never ceases to amaze me that the very things those people condemn in MK are the exact same things they themselves do, and encourage others to do, in their anti-MK efforts. If it’s bad IN MK, then it is also bad OUT of MK. If it should not be done in MK, then it should not be done anywhere else, either.
eyesicle said
Hmmmm, I wonder if I am listed as a “Guest.” I can’t get in to find out if my Karma has been wiped clean, but I am guessing it was. Oh well.
SNATCHES!
fightingwindmills said
Hey Rebecca, it’s me Not a Bee-liever. I said that because I was having trouble at my church with MLMs and my mom advised me to express my concern in the form of a question: Does our church have a policy on not using the directory for scouting prospective business partners? or something like that. She thought I would get a better response that way rather than being aggressive. If you want to convince someone of something that you believe in, phrasing it like a question often helps keep people from being defensive about it. Don’t you think so? Lack of full disclosure = “tact” in this case.
eyesicle said
I see where you are coming from, NAB.
eyesicle said
LOL, how do you really feel, MFBT??!! Your posts make me laugh…
ScrewU said
Wow FW. Got some PMS going on? You asked for it so here ya go…
First off, if you apologize for being rude before you are rude, it does not negate the fact that you are rude. It only makes your apology seem insincere. And who wants that?
So how would one go about ‘fact checking’ on Pink Truth? Didn’t people get banned for that? And… oh yeah… Tracy doesn’t like me. So if I sent her a polite email asking her whats the deal with Evebichon being a guest, do you think I would get an honest reply? Do you think even if she told me the truth, I could recognize it as the truth? Nope.
Supposedly, Evebichon screwed up her own account. Which may or may not be true. I will for arguements sake, give you that one. The average reader (i.e. me) would not be able to tell that. All we would be able to see is that there are other’s listed as Guest (did Happy screw up her account too?) and make a guess as to what happened to her. Isn’t there a rule about having more than 1 account? I know on PL that LJ fixed someone’s 1st account so they didn’t need to keep posting as their 2nd account. Why couldn’t Tracy just do that?
And then what would be the great explanation for annihilating High Hopes’ karma? I’m not getting why your panties are all up in a bind about this post. Is it because you have a comment in here and feel judged? Cuz thats not what it’s about.
I think what Rebecca is trying to say is that ‘tactics’ such as phrasing things as a question to make it less aggressive are things that MK is accused of doing and being ‘manipulative’. And her contention is that if it’s evil IN MK than it’s evil OUT. My opinion is that it’s simply using the best technique to bring about the best results. While some may call it manipulation, I call it common sense. I guess I ‘manipulate’ my kids to clean their room by making it a race. Am I a bad mom? Should I be locked up in jail?
fightingwindmills said
Ahhhhhh. Now I get it. I hadn’t thought about tactics in MK versus tactics out of MK. Thanks for helping me understand, ’cause I’m a little slow. Yeah, it could be PMS. I guess what I would have liked is for you to have asked, does anyone know what happened to make Evebichon’s username blacked out? But now that I look at it again, you did ask that. Thank you for taking my word for it on what happened to that username (Evebichon2 is still there, you can PM her and ask her what happened).
fightingwindmills said
. . . and I think the reason many people have trouble with manipulative tactics in MK is the old argument that someone profits while someone else might be in financial distress. You convincing your kids to clean their room doesn’t contribute to their financial distress. Or me convincing my pastor to come up with a clause for the directory reminding everyone not to troll for prospects doesn’t contribute to the pastor’s financial distress, unless he is getting kickbacks.
I didn’t feel judged because I posted on PT and was cited on Duh’s blog, I just didn’t want you to assume that someone had been reduced to guest, when presumably Tracy did what she could to resolve that situation several months ago. There is a rule about having more than one account, that’s why one got deleted. I don’t know why it couldn’t be fixed in the same way that accounts get fixed on PLH by LJ. That is out of my league. All I know is what the person involved told me directly. I definitely see your point about not being able to tell for sure if the explanation you would get by emailing Tracy would clear anything up. Again, thanks for taking my word for it, even if it was only for the sake of argument. I like when things get cleared up, but often when I think I am contributing to clearing things up I am actually just being an asshole. Thanks for bearing with me.
ScrewU said
Well, the beauty of this site is you can be as big an asshole as you wanna be. Thats why it’s so great. I think added information you have about posts is a good thing. Our goal here isn’t to take things out of context and alter facts to make Tracy look bad. She does that well enough herself that she doesn’t need our help. Thats totally cool that you added what you knew to the mix.
And I see what you are saying about the tactics used when someone is making money off of the person they are tacticating (yes, I did make that up and I like it). But one could argue that Tracy does that herself with facts about MK and Pink Truth. It is her controlled environment that she makes money from her ads. Also, what do you call it when a store manager uses tactics to encourage store employees to work harder so the manager can get a bonus? What do you call ads that bring shoppers into stores?
Not trying to be an ass to you FW but you seem to be the only one that likes to argue like I do. So I welcome your feedback
Help, help! I'm being repressed! said
“Not trying to be an ass to you FW but you seem to be the only one that likes to argue like I do. So I welcome your feedback”
awwww, can you feel the love? let’s all join hands and sing Kumbay-ya…
Mentally Fucked by Tracy said
eyesicle – feel about what? this whole thread? tracy?
well, i think tracy is a raving lunatic. seriously, this fucking paranoid shit about looking good on a page that isn’t viewable to any member [concerning the karma bs] is so important to someones visage it’s absolutely sickening. i mean karma for God’s sake on a friggin virtual discussion board.
for tracy, at the end of the day all that matters is how much karma she has and how many more restrictions she can put on her members so she has complete control over the lives of, oh i dunno, 100 women.
princessedamame said
100 women, MFBT? I think you give her too much credit.
Speaking of, where is raisin – I don’t remember, was she part of the mass exodus when PUR and Mommy Mindi left? Or am I thoroughly confused?
Mercedes said
Poor seagrl probably did like me and didn’t read the date-i’m good at that. so NAB-you still in at PT? How’s everyone else’s karma lookin’? My connections were unconnected earlier.
Mercedes said
p.s. It’s finally raining again here!!!! Maybe we won’t run out of water-yippee!
Mentally Fucked by Tracy said
whoops sorry princess – i should put 20.
17 of those are herself. LOL
Mercedes said
that is why i so love this place-i know i say this all the time but i just can’t say it enough:
no spell check police
no karma crap
no post count
no name giving-except the names we call each other-dingleberries and jezebels
no levels
yada-yada…YO MAMA!
Rebecca said
Ah, yes, ScrewU does understand what I was trying to say. Thank you, ScrewU.
Now, truly, I am a firm believer in there is a time and a place for everything; and for discretion. And, yes, we do use “manipulation” in many areas of our lives for many reasons.
Manipulation + discretion + motive = who knows?
Ain’t life grand?
fightingwindmills said
ScrewU, that was classic when you said on another post that you are awesome at being right.
I wish I had a better delivery on the things I want to say because I really do think I am good at contributing and helping, but my delivery is always off. I like to argue. I’m almost always “game” for an argument.
High Hopes has left the Building said
Yo ScrewU,
Thanks for noticing my karma has been kerplunked. I don’t care anyway, its only a blog and it isn’t the kind of karma that counts anyway.
Woof
judi said
Is Duh in rehab again?
Rachel said
Wow, I love this site. I was looking for people’s stories with MK, positive or negative. I came across pinktruth and thought, what a lot of bitchers. And really, that’s all it is. I don’t respond well to such “information”. Then I came across this site. I giggle, I laugh. You ladies are awesome, quick witted. I am no longer looking for information but sparring is truly fun.