Curious bids Pink Truth adieu

curious-cat.jpg

Written By: ScrewU

Ahhhh… yes.  It might be a new year but it’s the same ole same ole at Pink Truth.  Curious posted this ‘Goodbye Cruel World’ (as our BFF PUR discribed it).  I was actually shocked at how long it stayed up before Tracy deleted it.  But we know for certain that some saw it because they were able to post their comments.  Perhaps those that saw it will think.  Here it is, for your viewing pleasure

#3346
PinkMakesMeWannaHurl (User)

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Another item of news! 1 Hour, 34 Minutes ago Karma: 0  Karma+ Karma-
I’m leaving PT, though Tracy apparently didn’t want you to know that.“Incorrect username or password. Please try again. If you try again and still receive an error, please contact the administrator at pinktruth@gmail.com”

This, my friends, is what appears to be the passive-aggressive version of being banned on PT these days. You receive this message when you try to sign in, and then your e-mails requesting rectification are ignored. I sent 3 of them to the above address, on Jan 9, 10 and 13, to be exact; Tracy has been working on PT, adding new items to the main page for your enjoyment, during this time frame so somehow I doubt she missed them.

Of course Tracy can come back and try to say, I didn’t REALLY ban Curious, there was just a technical difficulty with her account. Sure, Tracy. Sure there was. And I’m sure there’s also a technical difficulty with your gmail account too and you received none of my e-mails informing you of the problem with my PT account. One thing might be possible. Or the other. But both? Sorry, I’m not buying that and I don’t think anyone but the most gullible will buy it either. Don’t even try saying that you didn’t look at your e-mail account for over an entire week either because nobody’s going to believe that, period.

Now I’m a fairly quiet and peaceable sort of individual and, though I had already decided over the holidays that I would be leaving PT for reasons to be outlined shortly, I wasn’t committed yet to the idea of posting a good-bye letter since many before me have said many of the same things and nothing seems to ever change on PT, so I was thinking why should I even bother. But by your taking this back-door, wimpy, passive-aggressive means to ban me (when by your own published rules, you had no cause to do so in the first place), well Tracy, you can thank yourself. And if even one person on PT sees this before you can pull it off the site and starts to think for himself or herself again, it will be worth it.

And folks, what’s truly sad about this is that this approach isn’t all that new, though it may be news to you. Permit me to fill you in on some of what’s been going on behind the screen: I’ve heard from a number of friends recently that Tracy’s done this to them as well, again also with no cause other than apparently that she just felt like it.

You know something Tracy, if you’re going to ban someone, kindly own up to what you’re doing and ban them. Did you think I wasn’t going to notice that I couldn’t log in or that you didn’t respond to the e-mails or fix the problem? So it begs the question of why aren’t you capable of coming straight out and banning me? Oh, that’s right…you forgot to make it a bannable offense to think for yourself…and to post in places other than PT, didn’t you?. You should probably fix those rules of yours to reflect this, so that they are more in line with PT’s reality.

Since you are so good at cut and paste, let me help you out with this. Feel free to change the numbers:

1. If you express any viewpoint contrary to the Pink Truth party line, you will be banned.
2. If you are discovered to have posted on any website or blog which disagrees with either Pink Truth or Tracy herself (without Tracy’s express permission), regardless of what you say – even if it’s just saying hi to a friend, you will be banned.

Seriously, for those who remember back in the day, part of my signature line on the “old” PT was “MKC…where thinking for yourself is a crime.” This is one of the reasons that I ultimately left MK this fall; independent thought was NOT encouraged there. And I will admit that PT was a great place to get answers to some of my questions, but then there were those “other” questions that just were not to be asked. And with that, PT started to remind me of MK; heaven forbid we should deviate from the PT worldview. People who dared to say the wrong things or ask the wrong questions were publicly castigated, humiliated, given negative karma, banned and otherwise run off.

Then there’s the idea of freedom of speech, freedom of association, etc. For as long as I’ve been associated with PT, there was always this sense that association with other blogs, people who had been banned, etc was an offense not to be tolerated and that you did so at your peril. You couldn’t even write the names of other certain other blogs, but I have to ask: WHY is “truth” (Pink Truth in particular) so afraid of critique? And the longer I considered the matter, the more it grated on my nerves that there was a group of people who had the temerity to imply to other adults what they were permitted to think and who they should or should not associate with.

As I depart PT, a little free advice for you Tracy, from someone who’s lived a lot longer than you have: you can’t control 3000 people. Now, YOU know you really don’t have 3000 members on PT and pretty much everyone else knows this too but just for today I’ll go along with your pleasant little fiction. People will connect with one another on a personal level, despite all attempts to prevent them from doing so. And someone will run afoul of the PT party line, they’ll be banned and they’ll find their way to “another” site and their friends from PT will come along with them because they still want to be with their friends. They don’t need or want PT dictating whom their friends will be. Don’t you find this just a bit exhausting, going through this scenario over and over again? Perhaps you’d be a much happier person if you’d just let people live their lives?

*Waving hi* to all of you PT regulars from before the exodus of August 07 who still remember me. Hope you all are doing well and remember that what has just happened to me this week someday will most likely will happen to you too. It’s just a matter of time…

And lastly, for anyone who’s unclear about what to do next while this post remains up: If you believe in freedom of thought, hit the positive karma button. If you’re comfortable with thought control, hit the negative one…

Curious

         
 
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#3352
pinked_out (User)

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Re:Another item of news! 6 Minutes ago Karma: 1  Karma+ Karma-
I received that info a few months ago. It did take a good day to get my email answered but I realize this isn’t Tracy’s only activity of the day. I did receive a new password and here I am.Just posting my experience. Don’t just jump to conclusions if you get THAT message.
          
 
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#3353
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Re:Another item of news! 2 Minutes ago Karma: 0  Karma+ Karma-
Wow, I haven’t logged on in forever, so clearly I am out of the loop, but what an interesting time to check in!
        
 
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104 Comments »

  1. Anon said

    The whole thing is suspicious since most account systems are maintained by an automated robot. Tracy shouldn’t have to respond to the email or request, the system should. Clearly the account was deleted by someone if no new password came through after three attempts within a week+. I am not defending Tracy in any way. As a passive-aggressive that is TOTALLY something I would do to get back at someone.

  2. SheerBlushing said

    That’s what happened to me. first I got negative Karma then I couldn’t log in. I bet she’s cleaning house and banning everyone that is left from the first exodus.

  3. unbeelievable said

    Yep, I am banned, too.

  4. pppj said

    –time to go on vacation again.

    Way to go Curious!

  5. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    I was surprised how long it stayed up myself; it was up for a little over 2 hours before it was pulled down. The last time that I checked on it under its major heading (Extra, Extra Read All About It), 48 people had viewed it. And as ScrewU said so well, I hope those that saw it will think.

    And Missy loves the picture!

  6. Congrats Curious!

  7. Sally said

    You ladies never knew TC way back in the early days before Mary Kay Survivors..Laura Ryan’s group…. there was a group called MKOB.. and it was also loaded with turmoil. And before that ther was MK OPinions.. that is wher she and LR e-met.

    >>>>>>>TC NEVER EVER by herself developed this idea of exposing the pitfalls in MK. She took someone else’ s idea.. stirred the pot.. and ran with it claiming all the tribute.

    Since she at one time had access to information regarding product changes.. she had some value to the human race. She no longer has that information.

  8. MKShay said

    Welcome to the banned, Curious!! :o)

  9. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    Way to go Curious! OOOoooooh…you said TEMERITY!

    I am proud to be a part of the aforementioned
    and (in)famous “Exodus of August 07…”

  10. aka_sans said

    Well, I am finally gonna step out here, cause my comment is in this post. Curous, I tried to send you a message through the forum. I think I remember you, and I was surprised to see you were banned, but as my comment said, I haven’t checked in in a long time, basically after the exodus. I did not know that things would keep falling out…which is why I check in here from time to time, LOL! I’ll probably be here more now, cause I am sure I just signed my banning warrant by posting here.

  11. aka_sans said

    and I meant to spell it Curious..sorry!

  12. best thing i’ve read all day.

    awesome curious! fantastic job, well done rhetoric. 🙂

  13. pinknight said

    help, help;

    great name –

    “Listen — strange women lying in ponds distributing swords
    is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power
    derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical
    aquatic ceremony.”

    I also was going to applaud the use of TEMERITY…. great job Curious!

  14. pinknight – i love that movie

    “Oh, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you. “

  15. pinknight said

    MFBT – HA!

    “I mean, if I went around sayin’ I was an emperor just
    because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me they’d
    put me away!”

    YES!!!!

    I feel a film fest coming on this weekend!!!!

  16. pppj said

    aka sans,

    Welcome to you as well.

    Oh gosh – film fest this weekend I am feeling old!

    pppj pppj pppj pppj pppj

  17. pppj said

    Sally,

    thanks for the history lesson. I didn’t know all of that!

  18. Mercedes said

    WOOHOO! Way to go! Welcome to the “goodbye cruel world” letter club-ROFL! First I was humilated publically. Then I had certain privileges taken away. Then I told Tracy what I thought and asked for the banning process be completed. getting very sleepy….

    Patch is having a hard time right now~causing me to stay up…info on my blog. I will give you a hint: I can’t poop!

    WOOF!

  19. Hey Sans! Sicknpink here. 🙂

  20. Dana said

    Wow…. that was good, Curious. One of the better goodbye cruel world posts I’ve read….. or it’s just been too long. For awhile they were my daily amusement.

  21. Curious, AKA Pink(Truth)MakesMeWannaHurl said

    Thanks everyone: I’m glad to finally be out of there; I should have done that a long time ago.

    It was interesting to watch yesterday morning. After I posted it up, I sent my copies to Duh and then informed a few friends *waving* who knew in advance that it was up. Then Missy the Cat and I and my morning cup of coffee went back in to watch. Turned into quite a few cups of coffee before it was all said and done!

    Hi Sans, great to see you here and yes I saw you there but I didn’t want to get you into TC’s bad books by acknowledging your comment since I didn’t know where you stood in all of this. I wasn’t really sure if pinked_out was cautioning people not to panic if they got that message (and she was correct, insofar as that goes; actually I’d gotten one of them a few months ago myself that had been fixed immediately) or if she had other motivations but I did need to respond to her post. One day = tech problem. One week = a passive-aggressive banning.

    First, I was surprised that I could get back in. So I went to the Extra Extra page from time to time (where I could watch the stats on my thread) and observed as the view count went up and I got to see the screen names of some of the people who were in Extra Extra. Don’t know if they were viewing my post but since it was the only new thing in the category I suspect they were. What surprises me was that some of them were part of the old guard but, as we have documented here, at 1 hour and 34 minutes into the process I hadn’t received any negative karma. Guess no one was willing to vote for being in favor of thought control, even to garner brownie points with TC. Or if they were, it was immediately offset by someone else who viewed it. Some of the others were quite new and I’m sure they might be wondering right about now about the missing post they saw yesterday morning and gee, maybe that Curious was right about all of the rest of it, too..

  22. pppj said

    isn’t that what we all hope for? That they start thinking about the manipulation of PT and get out.

    At first you go in for info, fact, and want to know if you’re crazy…then you watch all the crazy stuff and realize the preacher isn’t makin’ sense.

    Good times.

  23. Curious, can I sit at your feet?

    That letter kicks ass!

    Hey sanspink! How’ve you been?

    Not a Bee-liever, class of Aug ’07

  24. pinknight said

    Along the same lines, I wonder if anyone here noticed “blessed’s” deleted comment?

    I may be wrong, but I saw a comment from him on the main page a few days ago about how warm chattering should be a tase-able offense. It was clever and disturbing and (in his own words) “dark”.

    Someone commented after him, “that is dark – but funny”

    Someone else said something along the lines of, “don’t delete it Tracy”

    Unless I just forgot which post it was on (or some other bizarre excuse) it is GONE. I have not seen much from blessed here or there since.

    I am curious if he still considers Pink Truth to be the all powerful source of Truth he previously defended it as.

    Did anyone else see that? Blessed… how say you?

  25. Blessed said

    Dave,

    I did post that there. It was a rant which was a product of my vitriolic spew combined with my occasional sarcasm, but a bit on the decidedly dark side of humor. I posted it late in the day when I was tired. After reviewing it, I asked Tracy to remove it. I believed (believe) it was a note others could have used as reason to criticize the content of PT. It was certainly worthy of criticism. Thus, I asked TC to take it down.

    There is a recurring theme on PT, one I hope is noticed often. That is that folks both in and out of this cult are inherently good people. Some have just arrived at a point of clarity while others have not yet arrived. It’s largely nothing more than a matter of time and exposure to what being an IBC, Director, etc., is really about. I believe people are inherently good. Sometimes good people do bad things. Nonetheless, anybody can emerge from bad behavior, anyone can step away from institutionalized deviance. I encourage it.

    Dave, although that post was indeed in line with my occasionally sick sense of humor, humor I may continue to visit every now and then, I believe it was too much a potential target for criticism which could have ultimately detracted from the more important message consistently published by PT: “step out of the fog and find support here.” That’s why I asked it be removed.

    Blessed

  26. Curious, AKA Pink(Truth)MakesMeWannaHurl said

    Blessed, maybe you can answer this for me then: of what real value is the support that is found in an atmosphere of fear?

    There is some value to be found at PT, I will not debate that. I was able to leave MK thanks in part to the knowledge I gained there. And I am thankful for the friendships (*waving* since many of you post here).

    But a lot of really mean things have been done to others under the name of defending that “truth”. Perhaps you haven’t seen it occur yet; a lot of us have, time and time again. And even if you are merely a witness this time around, you start to think “will it be me next?” for some slight perceived infraction of those unwritten rules. For some reason that doesn’t seem like a supportive environment to me; it seems very conditional.

  27. aka_sans said

    Curious, glad you saw me yesterday. Back during the exodus, I emailed a few women who left privately *Hi, ladies, you know who you are* because they were women who had always made sense on the board and I did not know why they were suddenly gone. Once everybody I really enjoyed hearing from left, I just did not hang out too much. I had my name changed with the new forum but almost missed the deadline cause I had not been on that much. Anyway, I am like so many, I saw this blog and other blogs and thought, OMG this is awful, then after hanging out a little longer, I saw for myself what others were saying. Hope that makes sense and hi to everyone who remember me!

  28. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    Dearest pinknight…
    Why thank you! I have my name in honor of TC…she was repressin me! We had a hilarious discussion about it once on “Dear Tracy” and my name was born.

  29. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    DENNIS:
    Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
    ARTHUR:
    Be quiet!
    DENNIS:
    Well, but you can’t expect to wield supreme executive power just ’cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
    ARTHUR:
    Shut up!
    DENNIS:
    I mean, if I went ’round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
    ARTHUR:
    Shut up, will you? Shut up!
    DENNIS:
    Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
    ARTHUR:
    Shut up!
    DENNIS:
    Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I’m being repressed!
    ARTHUR:
    Bloody peasant!
    DENNIS:
    Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That’s what I’m on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn’t you?

  30. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    and no, I am not a geek with no life who just wasted a ton of time typing all that witty dialogue… I simply copied it off the net. Ahhhh the wonders of the internet…

    btw pinknight…you seem familar…

  31. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Had to wake dear Missy back up and put her back to work since a little birdie has told me that sadly, PinkMakesMeWannaHurl is no more on PT. So I guess that means that, as well as been unofficially banned, I’ve now been officially banned (and deleted from PT) as well!

    And I also have been told that some people went searching for one of Curious’ 4 or 5 posts to cast their vote for thought control. Silly rabbits.

  32. pinknight said

    help, help,

    thanks for the background. i just love that movie. all time classic. in what way do i seem familiar?

  33. pinknight said

    Blessed,

    so you are saying that you do not feel that you are in the pink fog of pink truth?

    You clearly see the deception, the thought control (look no further than this post), the lack of research, the ignorant, brainless parroting of so called “facts”, the bizarre math…. you clearly see all of this (thus being NOT fogged by their brand of fog) and still choose to not only post there, but actually promote it?

    I really don’t understand.

  34. MK4ME (B.S.) said

    here is the post that was on PT, for any that didn’t get to read it while it was up.

    blessedone said:
    BRACE YOURSELF, SICK HUMOR AHEAD:

    I’ve often thought what it must be like to be a woman placed in the awkward situation of having to listen to the Mary Kay lady if only because the rules of social gracefulness demand you not be rude. I’ve thought about women desperately looking for graceful exits to these warm stalking sessions that wouldn’t offend or seem rude (I’ve seen it). Seems to me there are so many daily stressors in life, why should one be forced to undergo this crap or, alternatively, have to be rude? I’m not a woman but I believe I can begin to empathize with this imposition on one’s social graces. Seems to me it would be kind of like my being forced to listen to a relative’s spiel about the pros and cons of whole vs. term life insurance. Difficult to escape without offending somebody. (Yea, I had a relative who sold life insurance.)

    I think the entire lexicon of social graces has to change in this regard. What if being warm chatted was viewed socially as an acceptable reason to Tase someone? You know, Tas’em. Use one of those hand-held self defense devices that sends an electrical shock through’em, a “Taser.” If only we could get to the point where mere utterance of the phrase, “And that’s why you need to do Mary Kay,” would be reason enough to Tase someone. Awww that’d be great.

    Can you imagine the scene? The police arrive in the food court adjacent to the Chick-fil-A at the mall to see a small crowd standing around a lady in closed-toe heels, support hose and a business suit, flopping around on floor next to her large purse filled with tubes of stuff and business cards. Standing above the MK lady is a “sharp looking” lady still holding the Taser.

    Policeman: What happened here? Did she pull a knife on you?

    Sharp Looking lady: No

    Policeman: A gun then, she pulled a gun?

    Sharp Looking lady: No, no gun.

    Policeman: Well what then lady, what did she do that made you want to Tase her?

    Sharp Looking lady: Well, well… she… she…

    Policeman: Com’on lady , ya can’t just go around Tasing people. You’ve got to have a good reason. Now let’s hear it! You know you could be guilty of an assault!!

    Sharp Looking lady: (A bit shaken) She wanted me to sell Mary Kay Cosmetics. No matter what I said, it was a reason I should sell Mary Kay Cosmetics….

    Policeman: Oh. Why didn’t you just tell me she was a Mary Kay lady when I got here? Miss, would you like to sit down and regain your composure (taking the woman’s arm)? Can I get you a glass of water or something?

    Policeman: OK FOLKS, MOVE ALONG. NOTHING TO SEE HERE. NOTHING TO SEE HERE.

    Little kid: Hey Mr. Policeman, what about the lady with the painted face flopping around on the ground?

    Policeman: Leave her alone kid, if she’s really a Mary Kay lady, she’s use to being Tased. It’s just part of their job these days. Move along.

    *****

    Monday night meetings would begin to include training about how to fall properly on a hard surface after being Tased. The tacky director’s suit would include a fashionable Official Mary Kay Mouth Guard for use during warm chatting so the consultant wouldn’t chip her teeth when hitting the floor after a Tasing.

    Official Mary Kay literature would teach that only lazy, IBCs can’t handle the Tasing because they just don’t want to be successful.

    I’m tired. It’s been a long week. I’m going home.

    Blessed

    *****

    Disclaimer: Nobody should ever use a Taser on a Mary Kay lady. Just a bit of dark humor.

    blessedone said:
    Tracy,

    When ya get a second, please delete my last post. It didn’t come through correctly and it’s a bunch of blather anyway, Could be too offensive to some. I should pause on Friday nights when I’m so tired, before I hit the “add comment” button.

    Thanks.

    Blessed

    Fri 11 Jan 08:19

  35. ScrewU said

    Blessed
    I think you were right. Your humor doesn’t belong on Pink Truth. Pink Truth is not a place to have fun or think of things on your own. Remember that next time so you can just point your mousy, click (wait a few minutes for pages to load) and then read the same ole same ole drivel.

    But I do think it gives us an added flare. We enjoy all humor here… sick, clean or over easy.

  36. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    My favorite birdie (thanks, hon! just be careful…) tells me that they’ve been busy over at PT in the last little while. So that they can try to have some fun over there, Chat has been reinstated after a long hiatus. Oh, and Curious is now officially dead too; my posts as Curious have been deleted on PT. Guess they’ll just have to talk bad about me in Chat, since they can’t give me negative karma any more. Have fun, chickadees!

  37. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    blessed, that was sick, but funny. and i am still an MK lady, and i still think it’s funny…although i try not to be THAT kind of MK lady.

    pinknight, you seemed like some other fun person(s) i had talked to. didn’t know if you had another name somehere else.

    curious, you did a great job! and psssst—you know me from somewhere else…I am the keeper of the gremlin…meow…

  38. Dangnabbit and I’m usually so good at guessing too! You little “keeper” you. *heart*

  39. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    yup free, I have been stealthily hiding right under you cats’ whiskered noses all this time… so, did u like me before you knew I was me?
    not that i posted THAT much…

  40. Why of course! After all you are a “keeper”. 🙂

  41. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    thx free… btw, do we know pinknight?

  42. HH said

    Welcome to the Valley of the Damned Curious!

    Throwing Missy Fishies!

    Graduating class of PT 2007

  43. Dizzy from the Dastardly ways of Tracy said

    Welcome to the bitchfest

  44. Mercedes said

    HH

    You are hilarious: Graduating Class of PT 2007-ROFL!
    Me too!
    I miss you~come over anytime!

    WOOF! (I hope you don’t mind that I use this as my sig line often)

  45. Help, Help…no can’t say as we do know pinknight. He was after our time.

  46. gus said

    O.K.

    Blessed, that was hysterical! I needed a good belly laugh today.

    Dear Ladies;

    I’m getting a sort of sick feeling inside. After I discovered PT and got all caught up in the ‘feeding’ frenzy of hatred of all things MK, I called my Director and unloaded all that I had learned on PT.

    OMG! Other than it being an obviously non-Christian thing to do, I’m now wondering if it was a total mistake.

    Are you all saying that the stuff on PT (for the last year) was all lies? I think I’m going to be sick.

    Have I lost a friend by jumping the gun?

  47. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    pinknight is a DUDE? wow did i have THAT one all wrong!

  48. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    Dear Gus-
    It is not all lies. Much of it is truth. It is very biased as anti-MK but that does not mean that it is still not the truth. Never fear. But if you feel you were RUDE to your SD as well as honest you can always apologize…

  49. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Gus, I suspect that a lot will depend on what you said to her. My issue with PT is not its factual accuracy, per se, though I know there are definitely some cherished myths at PT and they really don’t want to hear your individual experiences which dispute their accuracy. For example, it dilutes the effectiveness of their trumpeting “everyone in the court of sales buys their way in” for all the newbies and lurkers to see, when you have someone who posts “um, no actually I sold the product and earned the right to be there”… It comes back to that freedom of speech thing and why is a site with the word “truth” in the title so afraid of the whole truth.

    Now, having said all of that, there are some factual items on PT. For example, no matter what MK wants to tell the world and its sales force, calling yourself a “dual marketing” company doesn’t disguise that MK is a MLM.

    I took a quick look at pinknight’s site yesterday; part of his site is devoted to the subject of lies on PT. I can’t say whether his site is any more accurate that PT but since it addresses what is concerning you right now, it might be worth a look.

    The URL is http://www.balancedmarykay.blogspot.com/

    Thinking of you, Gus.

  50. Hey Gus!!!! I’m in 100% agreement with Curious. Couldn’t have said it better.

    Gus, from what I remember you telling me about your conversation w/your SD, you weren’t mean or brass. Infact, you showed a lot of empathy toward her.

    LOL Help, Help…yeah he’s a “DUDE”.

  51. Shades of Pink said

    Gus:
    I would not say that Pink Truth is all lies. I would say, however, that a more accurate title would be Pink HALF Truth. While many of the regular posters on that site have experienced real deviance by MK directors and consultants and NSD’s, they don’t allow those who are not experiencing deviance to speak out on the site. They want the world to believe that NO ONE in MK is happy or successful and EVERYONE in MK is unethical. To say that NO ONE is successful is just as inaccurate to claim that EVERYONE is successful. There are also people who back up the claims that no one can succeed at MK who are not actually experiencing the wrong-doings themselves (and may actually be successful). There are also several posters on there who have never been involved in MK themselves. I recall reading a comment on that site from a woman whose husband’s ex-wife was a MK SD so, therefore, she touts the evils of MK. No kidding.

    Are there unethical people in Mary Kay? Sure. There are unethical people in every business (MLM or otherwise).

    Is everyone in MK unethical? Of course not.

    Are there more unethical than ethical people? Who knows. The accurate answer is not going to come from a site that only presents the wrongdoings any better than a site that only presents the good things.

    Another sidebar, PT seems to measure “success” in MK as making thousands of dollars and assuming we all aspire to become directors (that is how I interpreted much of it). Success is measured individually. I consider myself successful because I am able to have a few hundred extra each month for bills and what not. I’m not exactly making thousands, but I’m making money and I’m not in MK debt. My story would never make it on PT, though. It dashes their definition of success and disproves their claims that no one can be happy/”successful” in MK.

    Pinknight’s site is designed to allow both sides of the spectrum to voice their experiences.

  52. Shades of Pink said

    Also, I should add that a website may never represent an accurate reading of statistics when it comes to successful vs unsuccessful people in MK. The entire MK consultant/SD/NSD population does not use the internet. I know a few SD’s who are quite successful and consider the internet a waste of time. 😉 So, who uses the internet more? Successful MK people or unsuccessful people? You see how many little statistical studies one would have to perform to get an accurate reading?

  53. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    good words shades!

  54. Thanks, Help,help! 🙂

  55. pinknight said

    Wow Curious, thanks for the endorsement. On the note of whether or not my site is more accurate, I refer to the comment from shades. I don’t think it is possible to (in my analytical mind) “prove” or “define” anything with adequate accuracy.

    My hope with my site is that a plethora of people will come forward with stories from both sides of the aisle (perhaps I should say isle… as in “the isle of Mary Kay”!!) and provide prospective recruits and hesitant consultants alike an opportunity to see what they may encounter or if their experience is typical, and how others overcame it.

    I really think this is what Pink Truth may (or may not) have started out intending to accomplish. However, there is not a lot of room for someone who loves the product, loves to sell it, loves to tell other people about the opportunity, but has a problem with something they have seen. Being that we live in an imperfect world, you are bound to run into something you dislike. Perhaps an NSD teaches a technique that you feel is manipulative. Maybe you are in a unit that encourages huge inventory orders and you find that to be to risky for the people you are recruiting. Unless you fully disown MK or swear to only buy for personal use, you will most likely be banned from Pink Truth.

    That is where I hope I can offer something unique. I don’t care if you HATE everything about Mary Kay. I don’t care if you LOVE everything Mary Kay. All are welcome. I do very little in the way of moderating comments, though I do specifically request people keep their comments to the realm of things they KNOW. Your experiences, factual data you have found and other similar items are preferred. Absolute comments (like “EVERYONE in Mary Kay is…”) that are based on individual experiences are discouraged. (rarely to the point of being deleted – I think I have deleted 3 or 4 comments so far)

    As many of you posting on this site have had bad experiences, I again invite you to please come over and at least add your experience to the mix. Admittedly we have more “weight” on the “pro” side of things currently. I assure you all that I not only welcome any negative comments, I solicit them. (I am not ready to beg yet!)

    Gus, please feel free to come over and ask any questions you like. We would love to have you. I agree with shades, that not everything on PT is a lie. However, I have rarely seen anything on that site that is not riddled with opinions presented as “facts” or “truth”. I see no reason that people should have to sort through all the lies, exaggerations, and petty “they expect them to wear THAT” complaints in order to find out that keeping your directorship by ordering too much product is a bad idea. I hope the friendly people on my site can help you out!

    Yes Help, Help, I am a dude… do I still remind you of someone? Ironically, I thought WLL was a dude about a week ago!

    Hi all!

  56. mkhonesty said

    Gus, I’m a SD’s husband and my profile is over on pinknight’s site. Over here, I gotta be careful, because I might get banned for being too serious.

    Shades, that’s an interesting question about the internet. I think a better question is whether successful or unsuccesful MK people read/post on these blogs. My finger-in-the-wind feeling is that the people who lurk/post are likely to be
    (a) people who feel that they were deceived and feel obligated to protect others from falling into the “MK trap”
    (b) ones who are looking for the magic “key to success” (they’re also the ones who try to get onto every director’s unitnet site), and
    (c) people who are pissed off about the BS posted on PT, especially by itenerant landscapers (aka Lazy Gardens).

    My wife is a successful SD and has never pulled the stunts you read about on PT (or what happened to Judi over on pinknight’s site). She also pays absolutely no attention to the blogs. Of course, on PT, a successful SD is an oxymoron, since the only successful SD is a NSD and everyone else is a struggling hamster who doesn’t have the brains to know that she’s running nowhere fast.

  57. pinknight said

    mkhonesty,

    I have discovered here that no one gets banned for anything here!

    They may give you a hard time – or a really hard time – for being too serious, but to my knowledge, no banning.

    I am open to correction here, but it seems that this site is intended to be a place where you don’t have to take yourself too seriously! I think the “natives”, if you will, are primarily ex-MK folk that met on PT and are now ex-PT AND ex-MK. Again, correct me if I am wrong (anyone?) but it seems that most people here are MORE anti-PT than anti-MK.

    I digress. Just wanted to say that you probably don’t have to worry about being banned here! Now on the other hand, try to say, “I like MK, but…” on PT and start a timer… you will be banned before you can…. dang it, I can never come up with a good “before you can…” word. Anyway, it will be pretty fast!

    good to see you over here!

  58. Help, help! I'm being repressed! said

    PKn…you thought Willie was a dude? ROFL…yeah. i get it.
    (in my best Austin Powers voice) “You must admit she is rather mannish.”
    Naw, you don’t still seem familiar, but you do seem like someone I would enjoy hanging out with (and NO I am not hitting on you)

    mkhonesty, I am a bit of an anomaly here I guess. I do okay in MK and make $$ but am really upset at the abuses I see there. So I am not all pink OR all opposed. I am also upset at the crap at PT and so I left. But I don’t hate it. I don’t hate MK and I don’t hate PT.
    I just see the “violence inherent in the system”
    (sorry, had to throw some Monty Python in there too!)

    now, as far as being banned OR being too serious…I think we are running the risk of being banned for being too polite and not cussing enough. No one has been insulted or called a hussie in a while! Quick! Someone fix that quick and throw around some profanity or we will all be banned!

  59. gothchiq said

    lol. Monty Python stuff, I love it.

    Welcome, Curious. I left PT a long time ago because all my friends were getting banned and I was therefore increasingly pissed off. So I just said “See ya” and left.

    Blessed. FFS. No need to get all in a kerfluffle that you posted something “dark.” IT’S OKAY. REALLY. You can post dark and snarky things. The intarwebs will not explode. Fuck a buncha censorship. Tase em, bro!

    They’re making me work on MLK day. boooooooooo!!!

  60. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    pinknight, you’re very welcome. And I only made the statement about your accuracy because I’m not that familiar with your site yet and haven’t been able to assess it for myself. I had just noted that you had threads concerning lies that you had found on PT so I figured I’d mention it as a possible resource for further investigation. Including mine. You’ll be seeing a bit more of me there, I suspect. : )

    But I think the thing to remember is that ultimately, with all of the sites, that there are greater or lesser degrees of truth being presented without the presenters’ emotional biases being filtered out beforehand. So one has to try to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were. It’s more difficult to do so on a site where only one side is allowed to be presented (whether it’s PT or a pro-MK site).

  61. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Hi Gothie; great to see ya!

    And yes, it HUGELY sucks to have to work on ANY federal holiday!

  62. pinknight said

    yeah, I am working today as well.

    help, help – no worries!

    gothchiq – “don’t tase me bro!!!!”

    curious – I look forward to seeing more of you!

  63. pinknight said

    ummm…. curious – I meant on my site of course…. just thought I should clarify!

  64. gothchiq said

    GAHHH it is so cold in this building. If they want us to come to work, at least turn the heat on, ya know?

    All I have is a can of mace with dye in it to help the cops find the perp. I carry this stuff to make my boyfriend happy. I’m not under the illusion that I’d be likely to have it in my hand the moment I needed it. It would be faster for me to rip someone’s sack off like a paper towel… but eww, let’s hope it never comes to that. *washes hands just thinking about it*

    Bah. I’m actually a nice person, you know. 😉

  65. Blessed said

    So Dave,

    Tell me, will my visiting your site brighten my teeth, get my laundry whites whiter, give my car better gas mileage, enrich women’s lives…etc., etc., etc.? Seems your claims are a bit extraordinary.

    Yea, you’ve deleted a few posts… the majority (I’d guess) were mine. How is it you can advertise your blog as anything close to a neutral venue when you delete my posts but allow posts expressing a clearly one sided opinion (equally as founded or unfounded) from the other side. Why (on a neutral site) should one presenting a pro-clarity opinion be subjected to a capricious litmus test not demanded from pro-MK opinion posts (i.e., MK is the best thing a woman could do.”)?

    And how is it my posts are much too horrible for inclusion on your “neutral” site but appropriate for YOU to post here on Duh’s site? Dave, from all indications (as much as one can gleam from blogs) I believe you’re indeed a wonderful person. Your site, however, is far from the virtuous paragon of objectivity you advertise it as being.

    Before you throw any more stones at PT’s purported lack of objectivity, you’d be wise to invest in some shutters for your own glass house.

    What’s wrong with simply admitting your site is not a neutral venue but is largely pro-MK (as evidenced by what you delete)?

    Blessed

  66. mkhonesty said

    I figured out a long time ago that the zoo animals here all cleared the moat and low wall out of PT. (What part of “banned from the bitchfest” needs explaining?)

    Well, with the exception of Blessed (kind of like a religious version of Havurah, if a born-again socialist isn’t too contradictory).

  67. MK4ME (B.S.) said

    hey blessed, in pinknight’s defense, he didn’t post your taser story here, I did, I had it saved to share with one of my buddies. Inquiring minds wanted to know what it was and heard it was dark but funny and so I thought I would share the chuckle.

    So sorry, it was shared by a non-frontloading, money making, not working 24/7, always making production, ethical director (of course PT would say I am a figment of someone’s imagination) who did get a chuckle out of a few sentences in your story. (Taking oneself too seriously leads to a very boring life), I happen to enjoy the people of Duh. Don’t post alot but have been reading here for probably close to a year. Ever need a chuckle, this is a good place to visit. And they don’t ban a pro-MKer, even if they make fun of you on occassion, but I would really feel left out if they didn’t give me sh*t)

    Later, mk4me (b.s.) (B.S. = black sheep not b*ll Sh*t

  68. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Blessed, I’d still like to hear your response to my question if you would please take a moment to do so.

  69. pppj said

    Hi all,

    Well, due to the fact that it is Martin Luther King Jr. Day I wanted to celebrate freedom with all of you! We all know that Martin Luther King Jr. worked for civil rights, but he was also a humanitarian! He worked for decency, common sense, and knew that we could stand together to face our challenges.

    I am humbled by his life, and the journey he went on to create eqaulity for all of us.

    I hope you are all having a wonderful day remembering one man’s voice of reason during a turbulent time in America.

    It is good to take a day by looking at history and marveling at all the wonderful freedom we take for granted. Freedom of speech, freedom to pray/worship or not to at all..freedom to vote, free to get a good public school edcuation.

    Let’s celebrate good will, peaceful resolutions, and freedom!!

  70. Blessed said

    Curious asked: “of what real value is the support that is found in an atmosphere of fear”?

    To answer your question one would have to presuppose PT is an “atmosphere of fear.” I don’t share this presupposition. In fact, I believe much to the contrary.

    PinkTruth.com was a gift to me and my family at a very difficult time. I’m thankful I had this source of support at a time when my life, my marriage, had been harmed by the delusions propagated by the Mary Kay Cosmetics Corporation. I believe (I know) PT has also helped many others in the same way. I was helped by PT in much the same way you (and many others) were (are) helped.

    Please know I am a strident supporter of PT and the job TC does maintaining that site.

    Blessed

  71. pppj said

    One of my favorite quotes that does remind me of Pink Truth:

    “In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends.”

    -Maritn Luther King Jr.

  72. Blessed said

    pppj,

    Well said.

    Blessed

  73. pppj said

    Blessed,

    I agree that some people on the site are extremely helpful – you bet! A lot of people helped me when I first joined MK and had questions about what to do. It helped me make the decision that MK wasn’t for me. It was a great choice to get out.

    In my time there however, I saw some very kind people ridiculed, made fun of, and a lot of nasty stuff. It is why I chose to leave. I think the mission of Pink Truth is a grand one, but unfortunately, the Wizard of Pink Truth isn’t so kind when people are trying to navigate the pink truth brick road. So, do I support that? No. Do I support a dictatorship of cencorship and badwill? No. Do I think some people on PT are there for the right reasons? Yes.

    I would love to continue this email exchange with you, but I have to run an errand so if you respond I’m not responding due to my chicken legs. (big grin) I will respond when I get back home this evening.

    Until then Blessed!

    “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

  74. pppj said

    oops forgot to write Martin Luther King’s quote after I wrote the last sentence – wouldn’t want any of you to think I was a creative genius of the English language!

  75. MKRealist said

    Totally Off-Topic, but I finally figured out how to get chat applications to work with this god-awful Vista O/S….so next time ya’ll have chat in the evenings, give me a yell and I’ll finally be able to join you! 🙂

  76. pppj said

    ahhh I’m back, but see I didn’t miss a thing!

  77. Sally said

    Hi pppj!

  78. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Blessed, I suspect some of us may have felt like you at one time but if you consider why this site exists, we found that the real truth over there is slightly different.

    I hope that PT continues to be in your view that wonderful world that you imagine it to be because I hate to see people’s illusions dashed. It’s a painful thing to see happen; I hated it when it happened to me. However, take a couple of hours sometime and really review the site critically. When I’ve done this, what I see is a lot of good info helpful to those questioning involvement with MK, but I’ll tell you Blessed there are other places where one can get good information without the various unkindnesses and abrupt dismissal of opinions that are slightly different that are so notable on PT.

  79. gothchiq said

    I agree, yo.

    The thing is, due to my personal experiences, I 100% agree with PT’s assessment of Mary Kay. However, I do not 100% agree with how people get treated on that site. So here I am at Duh-ville among a mix of people with varying opinions about the whole thing.

    If you actually do manage to turn a profit from MK, and not give yourself a heart attack in the process, then I say more power to you for beating the odds and getting some cash out of that damn company! I, though, would happily *disclaimer to the FBI/powers that be: this is just a fantasy* lob a Molotov cocktail through the windows of MK Corp.

    I’m sitting here happily wearing PANTS during this cold weather. And no hose. 😛 And flat shoes.

  80. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Gothie, since you’re not that far south of me and I’m freezing my ass off, I hope you have socks on with those flat shoes! LOL

  81. pppj said

    Ok, it snowed around 7 inches last night in the Wisconsin duh-ville.

    Hi to you Sally!

    Blessed,
    I hope you think about MLK’s words in regards to Pink Truth:

    “Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

    It seems you are truly ignorant of the harrassment, ill-will, and bashing that happened on PT. Did you ever go in a chatroom to see how people gang up on the new one in the room? It you weren’t in the clique of power – and were still doing MK watch out. I hope you check it out sometime. It’s a thing to behold – the questions, interrogations, and whatnot from adults who are supposed to be helping one-another see the truth about MK.

  82. Shay said

    It is cold here, but nearly as cold as where you guys are! 😀

  83. HH said

    I think if you look around on the net and do enough searching and reading of the various sites you will eventually get a balanced view of MK. MK is something entirely different to each and as they say Beauty is in the eye of the beholder – could MK be the same, yes? It brings whatever you want it to be according to your wants, desires and perspective. What may be the greatest thing since sliced bread to one person, could be burnt toast to another. Just having all of the information available whether it be the ‘People of Duh’, ‘Pink truth’, ‘Pink lighthouse’ whatever if you search it out and really look at what you are getting into you are making a decision on your own.

  84. I'll have a cosmo said

    Go Gothie! Pants, no hose and flats!! Yeah girl!! Now go have a cosmo, it’s on me!

  85. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Alright, the bar’s open! And even though it’s really after 5 pm for me, it’s always after 5 pm somewhere… LOL

    pppj, I’d totally forgotten about my first few times in Chat on PT. Truly unpleasant experiences, talk about undergoing the third, fourth, fifth, etc. degree. And then later, seeing it done to other new people. Some whose only “crime” may have been just being new to PT and not having their name recognized by the old guard..

    And I was just reminded earlier today of another PT rite of passage that Blessed and the new crew missed out on…anyone remember Hate Mail Wednesday? For those who missed it, this was a weekly feature that Tracy was running for quite some time. More on that in a moment.

    I was on one of the other sites earlier today; someone new had posted there and had proclaimed that she was all for MK. I’m pleased to report that she was treated with respect, invited to continue looking at the forum and to feel free to ask questions. And she is still a member of this particular forum. Had she made this same post on PT one could speculate, based on previous history alone, she would have been banned (to start off with) and then cruelly mocked behind her back.

    Which is where I was reminded of Hate Mail Wednesday. Granted that sometimes the posters were deliberately antagonistic and rather odious but as I recall a number of them were similar to this individual, relatively new to MK, excited, dedicated to their new venture and certainly not deserving of contempt merely for that reason. But they certainly were treated, in absentia, to contempt which didn’t do one thing to advance the cause of sharing truth. Furthermore, it probably created a huge barrier for those people to search any further to get answers to their questions about MK.

  86. Becky said

    I got banned too and I didn’t do anything! LOL

    Glad to find you guys again!

    mkdebt

  87. unbeelievable said

    cheers Curious! *raising scotch glass*

  88. Becky, you got banned? WTH?

  89. HH said

    Scotch did someone say scotch??????? How’s about a martini instead? Getting the shaker and olives out for 5:00pm.

    Would Missy like a fishtini?

  90. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Missy would absolutely love a fishtini (and she thanks you for thinking of her, HH) and I could be happy with either a dirty martini or scotch, straight. See y’all at 5 pm! : )

  91. colleen said

    Becky didnt do anything and was banned!!! Why does that not shock me..
    **waving to High Hopes**

  92. I'll have a cosmo said

    I have the Absolut and triple sec, who has the limes?

  93. Busty said

    I’ll take some captain morgan on the rocks. Then I think I’ll have a glass of Johnny Walker Green on the rocks mixed with cherry coke. Thanks, 15 til 5 here!

  94. OMG, Busty- how much $$ do you have to be mixing with Johnny Green? Mix with the black, drink the green rocks or neat! Shit, woman – do you make mimosas with your Dom Perignon and Cristal, using only orange juice squeezed between the thighs of child slaves, too?

  95. Only 4:30 here… sigh. And the drinking boss is out.

  96. Busty said

    LOL

    princess,

    where we get our “good stuff” it actually costs less than in the economy (we get ours on base). i’ve never tried johnny green until a few months back and now i’m hooked!

  97. pppj said

    Becky,

    Welcome to the group – it is good to have you here.

    And to the rest of you – WHAP – I got you with a snowball, and I am taking off with the drinks!

    pppj

  98. unbeelievable said

    *Downs another scotch*

    Cheers! I hope this drink will chase away this nasty weather…anyone got a sunny day ahead?

  99. Busty said

    Nope, we’ve got rainy, cloudy, cold weather even here on the beach!

  100. HH said

    Well it is cold here and there is a threat of snow which paralyzes those in Victoria. Think Pacific Northwest and mostly rain. It is sunny right now, but give it two minutes and it will change.

    I had a lurvely martini last night, hope you all enjoyed your fave bevies!

    Curious did Missy have a herring fishtini or some other variety. Curious BTW what is a dirty martini – do you drink it in your undies? ROF.

    ****Waving to Colleen!****

    Come check out a new bloggio in the blogosphere, Busty and I have joined forces at http://2coolchicks.wordpress.com. Now if I have given the wrong addy I am sure Busty will correct it. We are having some serious moments here, but I sure there will be some pretty out there loopy stuff too. We are adding to it everyday and Busty is the technowizard here.

    Ms Duh would you mind adding to your blog roll?

    Woof!

  101. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Sorry I checked out out for a couple of days; on Wednesday morning I had a biopsy as part of a clinical trial that I’m in and when I last wrote the local anesthesia was still working fine. Not so much by 5 pm that day and I’ve been really feeling like crap for the past couple of days (they put another @#$$%$#%^$!*()% hole in my body!)

    Missy’s in love with the fishtinis, this is now her house drink, I’m going to have to chaek out the Johnny green next time I’m on base and a dirty martini is a regular martini with a bit of the olive juice slopped in, in addition to the olives. The juice makes it look really muddy; hence, it’s called a dirty martini. And I love olives, so…

    And welcome Becky! Isn’t it amazing how that just seems to happen over there, again and again…

  102. Busty said

    I don’t know about ya’lls base up there Curious. But ours has a huge selection, wonder if it has anything to do with the seagoing service reputation?
    Johnny Green is good I like it, I think you would too.

    *gives Missy a nice pet on the back*

  103. Curious, along with Missy the Cat said

    Yep, Busty, ours does too. The base I traipse off to for all my body shop work (AKA post-cancer associated stuff) is Navy. Good medicine, and fine grog too! I just spend too much time at that place and that’s without having had a cancer repeat yet…

    Note to self: Stop at Class 6 store when I go in for my next appt in two weeks, pick up bottle of Johnny Green…

  104. Becky said

    Thanks for having me here.

    Yup – banned for no reason at all….but ya know what? I like it better here 🙂

    Cheers!
    This round’s on me!

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